Take the 2-minute tour ×
Information Security Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for Information security professionals. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Isn't 128 bit security enough for most practical applications?

share|improve this question
18  
Because it's larger, and thus sounds better. –  CodesInChaos Apr 23 '12 at 6:14
    
i think the minimum of 128 bits is decided upon with a large security margin in mind. maybe many people doesn't know that and so think that the difference between 128 and 256 can matter for their needs. if it takes with a 128 bit key 500 years to break a ciphertext and 1000000000 years with a 256 bit one, does it matter? –  H M Apr 23 '12 at 10:18
    
@CodeInChaos haha, that is probably the real answer. –  Rook Apr 23 '12 at 16:02
    
    
I might be remembering this incorrectly...If you are encrypting a lot of data, you may end up with duplicate subkeys (subkey is probably the wrong term) if there is enough data. This is functionally equivalent to reusing a one-pad cypher. I believe key size, block size, and cypher mode were what determined how much data was too much data. –  Brian Sep 6 '12 at 14:26

5 Answers 5

Your premise seems wrong to me. I am not aware of any evidence that "most people use 256 bit encryption instead of 128 bit". Indeed, if I had to guess, I suspect the reverse is the case.

share|improve this answer
1  
I think you are right in that most SSL setups are, by default, set to prefer 128-bit. However, I think the point of the question is "why use a longer key if 128-bit is secure anyway?". –  Polynomial Apr 23 '12 at 9:51
    
Actually if I had to guess, I'd suspect people store more stuff plaintext than they should encrypt/hash. –  StrangeWill Apr 23 '12 at 18:11
4  
For example both Firefox and Opera prefer AES-256 cipher suites. They even prefer non (EC)DHE suites with AES-256 over (EC)DHE suites with AES-128, which IMO is insane. –  CodesInChaos Apr 24 '12 at 17:56

When you are building a security system you need to plan on failure. This is the idea behind a defense in depth strategy.

Cryptographic primitives become weaker over time. Although a 128 bit primitive is plenty, a flaw could be uncovered in the cipher which reduces this level of security. So you need to add a security margin when the underlining primitive fails.

For example md5 produces a 128 bit hash, however using a chosen-prefix attack an attacker can produce a collision with a complexity only 2^39.

share|improve this answer
3  
Essentially it's about security margin. The longer the key, the higher the effective security. If there is ever a break in AES that reduces the effective number of operations required to crack it, a bigger key gives you a better chance of staying secure. Besides, with commodity hardware available today, the performance difference between 256-bit AES and 128-bit AES is fairly small. That and, as CodeInChaos mentioned, bigger numbers sound better and more secure. –  Polynomial Apr 23 '12 at 9:49
    
Ok not a bad logic. but can anyone tell exactly how strong a 128 bit cipher is at the current time, assuming no considerable breach is found in it and large quantum computers aren't realized? –  H M Apr 23 '12 at 10:24
1  
@HM, crypto.stackexchange.com/a/753/706 –  mikeazo Apr 23 '12 at 11:35
    
regarding md5 story, i have heard that cryptographic hash algorithms are generally considered less reliable than cipher algorithms, because they have not as strong a security proof as cipher algorithms have. i don't know the details, and sorry for no reference, but i have read such words several times in several places, and so think a difference really exists between hash algorithms and cipher algorithms in this regard. also afaik no practically dangerous breach in modern and standard cipher algorithms like AES is discovered for years up now. –  H M Apr 23 '12 at 11:59
    
@Polynomial Yeah margin, that is the word i should have used. –  Rook Apr 23 '12 at 15:54

I'm assuming you are talking about symmetric cryptography. The answer is that it is never secure enough (even though I suspect that using 256 bit vs 128 bit keys is a marketing strategy to make the client feel more secure).

And don't forget the rise of quantum computing, which significantly lowers the amount of time needed for a brute-force attack.

share|improve this answer
    
yes it's symmetric. about quantum computers wikipedia says: "Bennett, Bernstein, Brassard, and Vazirani proved in 1996 that a brute-force key search on a quantum computer cannot be faster than roughly 2n/2 invocations of the underlying cryptographic algorithm, compared with roughly 2n in the classical case. Thus in the presence of large quantum computers an n-bit key can provide at least n/2 bits of security. Quantum brute force is easily defeated by doubling the key length." –  H M Apr 23 '12 at 10:34
    
But seems to me that for such attacks becoming practical, very large fully fledged quantum computers are needed that i don't think this can be realized very soon. anyway it seems a good idea to use 256 bit if relatively long term protection is needed (and changing the keys/key length at need is not practical), although 256 bit will become 128 bit in the quantum computers era, so why not use 512 bit? but i personally don't remember any 512 bit supporting cipher!! –  H M Apr 23 '12 at 10:34
    
@HM "Quantum brute force is easily defeated by doubling the key length". I don't know about this so I won't go into much detail, but it this is true, there you understand why you use 256 bits instead of 128 :) in any case, as you say, longer keys give you long term protection, which is probably important enough to justify their use. –  user1301428 Apr 23 '12 at 10:50
    
It would be easier to just run Schors algorithm on the public cryptography of the key exchange in a lot of cases anyway. –  ewanm89 Apr 23 '12 at 11:12
    
@HM "AES has a fixed block size of 128 bits and a key size of 128, 192, or 256 bits, whereas Rijndael can be specified with block and key sizes in any multiple of 32 bits, with a minimum of 128 bits. The blocksize has a maximum of 256 bits, but the keysize has no theoretical maximum." (from wikipedia) –  ewanm89 Apr 23 '12 at 11:14

I didn't see this mentioned in the answers or comments so I thought to add this as an answer. Key size does not always correlate directly to complexity of an algorithm. A common fallacy is to assume that a message encrypted using AES256 is more difficult to crack (an adversary getting any sort of meaning information given only the ciphertext) than the same information protected using AES128. It makes logical sense that a larger key size provide introduces greater complexity but as with any systems, implementations are subject to weaknesses.

Assuming you're talking about AES 128 versus AES 256, there is a known weakness in the key expansion function that affects AES256. Fundamentally, the weakness reduces the complexity of AES256 to that lower than AES128. There's a similar attack for AES192 as well, though in this case, the complexity of AES192 remains greater than AES128.

Moral of the story, people don't understand crypto... j/k (I'm not a mathematician). Reality is that people assume "big" with "secure." A big gun is better than having a small gun. A muscular person can beat up the "stick." Larger key sizes are more secure than smaller key sizes.

In reality, the implementation of crypto is more important than key size alone.

share|improve this answer
1  
If I remember correctly, that weakness is only relevant when using AES is quite unusual modes, and not any typical encryption mode where random keys are used. I'm pretty sure that AES-256 is stronger for normal use (CBC, CTR,...) –  CodesInChaos May 3 '12 at 9:14

Why do people buy red sport cars ? They do not go faster than sport cars of any other colour...

AES comes with three standard key sizes (128, 192 and 256 bits). Many people see this and think that if there are three distinct sizes instead of just one, then there must be some difference, and since the 256-bit version is a bit slower than the 128-bit version (by about 40%), it must be "more secure". So they go for "the most secure" and choose 256-bit keys.

In reality, the AES has three distinct key sizes because it has been chosen as a US federal algorithm apt at being used in various areas under the control of the US federal government, and that includes US Army. US Army has a long-standing Tradition of using cryptography, and that Tradition crystallized into internal regulation with all the flexibility and subtlety that armies around the world constantly demonstrate (just listen to some "military music" and you'll understand what I mean). Unfortunately, this happend quite some time ago, before the invention of the computer, and at that time most encryption systems could be broken, and the more robust were also very hard and slow to use. So the fine military brains came up with the idea that there should be three "security levels", so that the most important secrets were encrypted with the heavy methods that they deserved, but the data of lower tactical value could be encrypted with more practical, if weaker, algorithms.

These regulations thus called for three distinct levels. Their designers just assumed that the lower level were necessarily weak in some way, but weakness was not mandatory. So the NIST decided to formally follow the regulations (ask for three key sizes) but to also do the smart thing (the lowest level had to be unbreakable with foreseeable technology). 128 bits are quite sufficient for security (see this answer for details). Therefore AES accepts 256-bit keys because of bureaucratic lassitude: it was easier to demand something slightly nonsensical (a key size overkill) than to amend military regulations.

Most people don't know or don't care about History, and they just go for big because they feel they deserve it.

share|improve this answer
    
Can you provide sources that the three levels are really only to satisfy (old) military regulations? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, if 128 bits was secure enough they might as well have used 128, 136 and 156 for that matter. The en/decryption time would have been shorter yet still secure according to you. –  Luc Sep 6 '12 at 16:05
1  
@Luc: the 128/192/256 bits are for aesthetics: powers of 2 are always better (and 3DES was already using, formally, a 192-bit key -- out of which 24 are ignored, but that's another story). For the source, it was what someone told me directly at that time (I think it was Schneier) so I do not have a written source. As for the decryption time, it is Rijndael-specific; some other candidates offered the same performance for all key lengths. –  Thomas Pornin Sep 6 '12 at 18:15
    
Okay, thanks for the response! –  Luc Sep 6 '12 at 20:29

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.